Samuel Collins: Multisite, Curriculum and Discipleship in Kids Ministry
What does it look like to step into a kids ministry leadership role as a young leader — especially when you're following someone with a big legacy? This episode covers the unique challenges and advantages of leading young, how to develop your own leadership identity instead of copying someone else's, and what it means to do ministry through people rather than for them. We also get into curriculum choices, how to structure kids ministry inside a multisite church, and how to create genuine worship moments that actually connect with kids. A practical, honest conversation for anyone in the early stages of leading a kids ministry.
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KIDMIN U Team (00:00)
Well, Sam, welcome to the podcast.
Samuel Collins (00:02)
And thanks for having me. Really excited to be on.
KIDMIN U Team (00:05)
Yeah. Okay. So you do ministry in Atlanta area. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. So I heard about 12 stone years ago because there is an amazing leader there named Dan Ryland. I love some of his resources. I discovered them and quickly realized 12 stone is one of those churches that has a legacy, you know, and I did ministry kind of in that region for a little while and it was cool just to see the influence.
Samuel Collins (00:10)
I do. Yep, the 12th Stone Church. Yep.
KIDMIN U Team (00:34)
that a church like that has, it's gotta be really fun to be a part of it. But if we could go all the way back to the beginning, I always love hearing how kids ministry leaders ended up doing what they're doing. Because I don't know if you've kind of come across this, but youth pastors have a pretty similar path to becoming a youth pastor. Senior pastors sometimes, same thing. Kids pastors come from all over the place. So maybe take us into how'd you end up doing what you're doing now?
Samuel Collins (01:03)
That's a great question. ⁓ I think like most of us, we maybe never saw us getting into kids ministry, at least in my world. ⁓ Never would have imagined. I I went to college for sports management. ⁓ So very far off. And kind of the way that God got me into kids ministry is honestly pretty wild. ⁓ So my freshman year, ⁓ I'm at school.
⁓ And I have one of my old small group leaders who worked at a camp in North Georgia. He reached out to me and it's like August, like I had just gotten to camp. And he's like, hey man, like what are you doing this summer? And you know, again, in August, I have no idea what I have planned for the next summer, but I also know that like college is like prime time for you to go out and just do like a bunch of fun stuff. And so, you know, I was like, dude, I have no idea. And he's like, well, I think you should do like a summer camp.
KIDMIN U Team (01:49)
Yeah.
Samuel Collins (02:01)
And I, in all honesty, I was like, there is absolutely no way that I am doing summer camp. And so I was like, I hit him with the maybe card. was like, maybe I'll apply, you know, whatever. And I let the deadline pass. I'm like, no, I totally forgot. And didn't think like anything of it.
KIDMIN U Team (02:11)
Hahaha.
Samuel Collins (02:18)
and then fast forward to I'm going to this men's conference with my dad, ⁓ up in Tennessee. Cause went to Lee university. and we sit down for this, this men's conference and I get another text and it's from my leader, Dan. And he was like, Hey man, what are you doing this summer? At that point I had like my whole summer planned out.
We were traveling so much, I was gonna probably be home for like a week out of the summer. And so I give him like the long list and he was like, dude, that's awesome, but I think you should do summer camp instead. And so I kind of was like, all right, Dan, it's like fine, I'll pray about it. And the most dangerous thing that I could have done was I gave a very halfhearted prayer to God and I was like, fine, God, if this is what you really want, I need you to make it abundantly clear because I'm an oblivious person.
KIDMIN U Team (02:51)
Ha
Samuel Collins (03:06)
And secondly, if I don't agree with it, don't see it, whatever, just have someone tell me that's what I need to do. And so conference lasts from Thursday night to Saturday morning and Friday night, this guy's up there preaching And he was like, some of you guys are asking God for something in your season and yada, yada, yada.
And he leans forward and he goes, dad says yes. And I sat there and I went, that is the most cliche garbage I've ever heard in my life. And I go like, I'm going to miss out on this and we'll miss out on that. And I'm like listening to all the things that I had planned for the summer. And it was almost like, God whispered to me, he's like, if you think that's so great, don't you think what I have is that much better? I was like, oh,
KIDMIN U Team (03:29)
Hahaha!
Samuel Collins (03:44)
And so the next day I told my dad that I was studying for finals. In reality, I was going to donate plasma because I was a broke college student. And so, and I had to pay off a speeding ticket. That was a whole nother story.
But this one guy, his kiosk is open, and I'm sitting there, I'm like, please do not call me up, because he was brand new. I'd only seen him one other time, and he was horrible at his job.
Always had to reprick your finger, like do all this kind of stuff. And so of course he calls me up and went, great. So I'm sitting there and he's testing on my vitals and then he just stops. And he sits there and stares at me for like a solid minute. And I'm like, am I having a heart attack? Like what's going on? Like, you know, this is just really awkward. And he looks at me and he goes, this is going to sound really weird but I think God wants me to tell you something. And I'm like, I have no idea what it's like to come out of this dude's mouth. Cause you know, again, very sketchy place that I'm in.
And he goes, God wants me to tell you that he's calling you into kids ministry. And I was like, ⁓ okay. And he said, just like how Samuel anointed David, he's like, you're an anointed, David's the next generation. And then he said, just like what your name means, because Samuel means God is heard. So he goes, just like what your name means, God's heard your prayer and that's his answer. And I'm sitting in this plasma center, like.
freaking out because I had a relationship with Jesus and was following him, but that was the first moment in my life where I went, my gosh, God is undeniably real. There's no way I can tell that story with any kind of logic or reason and try to explain that in a way. This guy didn't even know my name. That's how sketchy this place is. And yet he said that. And I remember my half-hearted prayer of, God give me a sign. If I ignore it, don't agree with it, then have someone tell me that's what I need to do.
⁓ My heart rate went up so high that I had to wait another 30 minutes to donate. ⁓ And I'm sitting in this plasma center, applied, got accepted ⁓ into this camp, like less than a week before it started. ⁓ And man, it was the best summer of my life. ⁓ Just God reaffirming and going like, this is what you were created for.
KIDMIN U Team (05:34)
haha
Samuel Collins (05:52)
And so I go through this season. ⁓
at this camp and trying to figure out what in the world is next. Like I know I have this calling on my life. And for context, like this is only like four years ago. So it's not like it was like 10 years ago, like this huge thing. Like this is only four years ago for me. And I meet with my old student pastor
like, hey, I know about the residency that 12 Stone has,
God swings all the doors open, get accepted into the residency.
got to learn and work through the residency and then the job opened up. And now it's like, I get to lead the kids ministry at the campus that I grew up in at 12 stone, which is just a crazy surreal thing of going, I sat in this exact room, like learning kids ministry and now I get to lead it. And so, you know, I look back and
the journey's crazy on the way that God works and the way that God moves. And again, if you had told me that I'd be where I was even two years ago, I probably would have laughed. But I feel like that's kind of just part of how God rolls sometimes of the things that we least expect and yet I wouldn't change a thing.
But it's cool to see how God has had his unique hand on all that.
KIDMIN U Team (07:09)
Yeah, as you were talking about that guy at the clinic, I was getting chills and it's like warm where I'm at. I'm in Southern California. It's warm right now. So those chills were like totally just a response to what the Lord did. And I, man, I could listen to those stories for days. You know, I love seeing when people get to a crossroads and, even when they don't realize they're approaching it and God's like, I'm just going to grab your attention right now because there's something I want for you. That's way better than what you think you want. And so
Samuel Collins (07:16)
You
KIDMIN U Team (07:38)
Yeah, man, to think about what you might be doing right now instead of what you're doing is crazy because right now you're doing kingdom work and you're blessing so many kids and families. That's incredible. Okay. For people who are paying attention there, Sam said this is about four years ago. So if you're doing the math at home, Sam is a young leader. That's actually one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on is to get the perspective of a young leader. lot of our listeners are in that boat.
They're in their twenties, early thirties. ⁓ obviously those aren't the only people who listen, of course, but, there are lot of young kids ministry leaders trying to figure out their place in all of this. And that was my story as well. I I started working in the church at 19 and was a kid's pastor at 24. And, and for me, there were some unexpected challenges of being a young guy in a ministry like this. What's it been like for you? How do you approach ministry as a young leader?
Samuel Collins (08:38)
Yeah, think the benefit that we have as young leaders, obviously there's a lack of experience for sure, ⁓ but I think that God makes up for a lack of experience ⁓ with who he is, first of all, because I think, again, God doesn't call the equipped, he equips the called. And so the understanding of going, man, the blessing that I have is I'm getting to lead kids, but it's like,
I'm not that far out from necessarily being a kid as well. And so the ways that I'm able to still be like connected with what I recognize, ⁓ what I needed when I was a kid, but also what kids need in this season of ⁓ not necessarily being so far off removed. I think there's a blessing that God brings with that. And I think again, it allows to bring a ⁓ unique perspective to the table.
Whereas somebody who's been further along in ministry gets to give that experience and what they've learned. And so I think there's a beautiful blend between the two of people that are more understanding of the next generation that's coming up because it's literally the one that was after them ⁓ versus one that has been in kids ministry for so long that has learned and seen ⁓ so much grow over time and things work and things not work. ⁓
But I think especially being a young leader, ⁓ it shifts a little bit of identity and what it looks like to actually lead through your ⁓ own personal leadership versus trying to model somebody else's personal leadership. ⁓ And so I think there's ⁓ an interesting dynamic of what that looks like and the dangers too of ⁓ falling under the trap of trying to be somebody else.
in their leadership style rather than understanding and growing in your own.
KIDMIN U Team (10:37)
Yeah. And we talked before we pressed record. And one of the things that stuck out to me is your story about how you got started, not just as a young leader, but to add on top of that, all of the inherent challenges that come with being a young leader in a ministry like this. You also were replacing somebody that I wrote a legend, replacing a legend. ⁓ How'd you go about that? Cause I imagine there was a temptation, like you said,
to feel like I gotta be exactly like this person. I've gotta have their tendencies and their structures and their habits, whatever. I've gotta communicate like them perhaps. ⁓ How did you wrestle with that and come to a place, hopefully you're in a place now where you can take confidence in who you are as a leader and not have to try and become like somebody else? How'd you navigate all that?
Samuel Collins (11:29)
Yeah, I think a lot of us through trial and error, again, younger, you ⁓ again fall into the tendency where you're trying to be the exact person that you're like filling the shoes of. And so I think that's a really ⁓ big thing, but also a scary thing. Because I think when we're young, there's that internal pressure ⁓ to prove like that you belong in the room, right? ⁓ And like you want to show that you're capable, you want to be able to lead well, and you want to be able to like learn how to
handle responsibility, ⁓ especially when it's like you're stepping in and you might be leading people that are like double your age, ⁓ trying to figure out what even that looks like. ⁓ And so for me, it's like I get in there and I'm like, I have to prove myself and show people why they should follow me instead of, know, cause a lot of those people stepped into kids ministry following this previous leader rather than following me. And so it's the...
you can create your own tensions in your mind of going, I have to prove to these people of why they should stay. When in reality, it ultimately has nothing to do with you. And I think the people that are fully bought into kids ministry specifically are not there because of you. Like they're there because they are a part of the mission that God's called us to. And so I think that's kind of the stuff that I had to wrestle with, especially in the first six months of my role. ⁓ Because again, it comes down to
this understanding of going, ⁓ man, God has put me in this specific position for this specific time. And so if I'm trying to be somebody else, if I'm trying to be somebody that I'm not, it's not only robbing ⁓ like my internal growth, but it's also robbing other people from getting to benefit through the ways that God has wired me distinctly through my own like strengths, through my weaknesses. ⁓ I think that's the beautiful thing about leadership is you're able to lead through your strengths, but you're also to grow and.
able to grow in your weaknesses. ⁓ And just being like a genuine leader of going, hey, I recognize that these are my weaknesses and you guys understand what my weaknesses are too. Now I'm not sitting in my leader huddle and going like, hey guys, these are all the things that I stink at. But at the same time, it's being raw and real with people rather than trying to be this kind of like, ⁓ this fake kind of like persona where it's like, I have everything put together all the time. ⁓
and letting people in on the things that I'm also walking through and growing in. So ⁓ I think, again, the leadership part of getting to step into a ministry that somebody has really helped to build up and get to a healthy place ⁓ is, again, recognizing and going, man, no matter the role that God has put me in for this specific season, out of all the people, He put me in this role. ⁓
And that's not a prideful thing. It's a thing of going, I'm stepping into the thing that God has called me to do with authority and with confidence, knowing that this is the thing that he's called me to. ⁓ And so I think that's been a thing that I've, I've struggled with and wrestled with and grown in. And you don't understand ⁓ the repercussions of what that can even have internally with yourself. And we even talked about, you know, man, I would
I would get done with a Sunday and I'd be so exhausted. And I was just like, man, I'm exhausted because I gave everything I have to the kids ministry. And there's Sundays where it's hard and there's Sundays where it's like, man, this is so rewarding and great. ⁓ But I think the thing that I realized was, again, I was exhausted because I was trying to be somebody that I wasn't. So not only was I trying to create this persona of who I wanted people to view me as, but also I was stepping in and still leading the hard stuff.
KIDMIN U Team (15:08)
Hmm.
Samuel Collins (15:17)
And so even getting to recognize that myself of being who I am, it's freed me up not only to ⁓ find more joy in what I do and the calling that God's placed on my life, but additionally, it's allowed me to be more energetic, to be more able to overflow the cup that I've been able to actually fill. And so I think that's allowed us to, again, lead and...
minister to kids and families in the way that God had designed it to be and God called us to do distinctly at 12 stone with with five ranch and and all that kind of stuff.
KIDMIN U Team (15:56)
Yeah, there's an irony there where I feel like the story that we tell ourselves is that people want me to be the exact same way that my predecessor was, especially the more successful they are, the greater this like pole where we think that what they really want from us is to be the same way. When in reality, probably what felt so attractive about that leader is that they were being themselves. They're being authentic to who they are.
Samuel Collins (16:24)
Mm-hmm.
KIDMIN U Team (16:24)
You know, and that was the thing underneath the thing that they respected and, and were willing to follow. And I think when we come to that place, like you did, where it's like, Hey, I can't be this other person. There's only one of them, but I can lean into how the Lord uniquely wired me. And when I lean into that, I think people respect that a ton, but it's hard. I'll tell you, as a young leader, it's so hard because there is that desire. You said it so well.
of you you're trying to prove yourself almost, you're trying to prove that you belong. And I think the quicker that a young leader can just release that, the better. If you have your job, you belong. So, you know, and it's not just because like some supervisor thought you belong, it's like you're wherever you are, you're there because that's where God wants you right now. So just lean into that. Don't try to prove yourself. Just be faithful.
And I feel like for me, the minute I started to have that mindset, things started taking off. Because for me, I grew up in a ministry that had a kid's pastor who was a legend. And so my first like five years of my career, I was working under this guy, his name is Pastor Kerry. And I wasn't like the guy yet. I wasn't asked to replace him. So my story is a little bit different in that way, but ⁓ being a leader moving up.
⁓ the ranks, if you will, in our, our kids ministry, I felt like I had to be like Pastor Kerry. I felt like I had to be, you know, he was like a life of the party, larger than life, hilarious guy. He was like, you know, you get him on stage in front of kids. Like he was so goofy and fun and the kids loved it. ⁓ I'm fun, but in my own way, you know, like I'm not, I'm not the same. I've got a different flavor of fun.
Samuel Collins (18:10)
Yeah
KIDMIN U Team (18:15)
And I remember trying to be like pastor Carrie and I failed and I realized I can't be him. I've got to be me and I've got to figure out what does it look like to be faithful in my own way. So I love that you're in a big role at 12 stone. I mean, it's already a big church. So any role there is going to carry some influence, but you're in a role where you're influencing really the whole kids ministry. Tell me a little bit about the structure at 12 stone because
I feel like other people at multi-site churches are always curious hearing about the dynamics in your structure. But then other people are curious too, who are in, let's call it just a regular church, like a regular church. And they're like, how in the world do things function in a multi-site environment? So maybe give us a little overview of the structure of your ministry as the campuses are related and as like a central.
thing is and then maybe share what your role is inside of that.
Samuel Collins (19:15)
Yeah, so 12th Ston is a multi-site church. We actually just launched our 10th campus on Easter. And that was our first out-of-state campus for us over in Summerville, South Carolina, which is really cool. ⁓ And so the model that we have built over time and ⁓ gotten to see that grow and form is we have this model of obviously like the local church. And so you have like a campus pastor, somebody that's working with spiritual mission, student pastor, kids pastor.
And then you have people that are residents that kind of help and are learning underneath that. And then the umbrella or the like overlayer, if you will, that we call campus services. And so they're distinctly built in order to help serve the campuses ⁓ on a global level. And so what that looks like is getting to resource, whether that's curriculum, whether that's supplies, whether that's ⁓
helping create events that are, again, universal to all the campuses. So that's things like baby dedication or like bigger events that we wanna have like, again, universal across the campus where we're going, hey, like these are the days that we're doing faith foundations for kids and ⁓ all these different like conversations or again, bigger events like summer kickoff or back to school bash and stuff like that. It's the, hey, we're getting to promote this in our community and going.
You have like a lot of different options of places you could go to then be a part of it ⁓ in the Atlanta and outskirts of Atlanta area. ⁓ And so that's been a really cool thing that has been built. ⁓ And there was a season where Folsom didn't have that. And I think there was a thing that was missing that wasn't noticed that it was missing until we had it. And ⁓ the realization of what that gets to add and the value that it gets to add.
And it's changed over time. Like we've had to really readjust like what it looks like having a campus that's not within driving distance on a Sunday. ⁓ So it's like, what does it look like when you have something like go wrong ⁓ and you can't call somebody on the tech team or whatever to drive over ⁓ from our main campus? Like, you know, for me, it's like, hey, worst case scenario, I can get somebody to drive over and be there in 30 minutes versus like, now you have something like Somerville and
South Carolina, it's like, okay, how do we actually solve that? ⁓ And so that's been a cool thing. And even how we restructure with kids ministry, because it used to be that they would resource everything that we needed on a Sunday with curriculum and supplies versus now what we're doing is we're getting to order that ourselves, kind of like what the, ⁓ we'll say original model for most people looks like ⁓ in how we order and how we get supplies and.
⁓ do curriculum. And so for me, it's like I get to be on the local level as the kids pastor at our Flower Branch campus. And so what I'm getting to be over is all of our kids ministry from pretty much like newborn, like infants all the way up to fifth grade. And it looks different for each campus. Some campuses might have a coordinator based on the size ⁓ for elementary or early childhood, ⁓ as well as you're inviting.
⁓ residents into that mix as well. And so I think that's been a gift ⁓ again of freeing us up being a multi-site where there's less things that we have to think about. Because the whole goal with Campus Services again is to provide the things that we need in order to free us up to then get to be ⁓ available for people. Because like that's ultimately what we're getting to do in ministry is being available for people. ⁓ And so I think that's the biggest blessing that we have with our model.
in having campus services and it's not perfect, like which no church is, ⁓ but I think the things that we've been able to learn through that have been incredibly beneficial.
KIDMIN U Team (23:22)
Yeah. How exciting, man. I didn't know that you guys had just launched an out of state campus. That's a big, big move. You know, anytime you launch a new location, it's worth celebrating. to be able to pull that off in a different area takes a lot. I mean, I remember being at Sandals Church in Southern California. And for us, the big test was launching a location in Fresno in central California, which was like a six hour drive away. And
Samuel Collins (23:46)
Wow.
KIDMIN U Team (23:49)
You know, same thing, man. Most of our campuses were at most like an hour away But this is the first time where it really like tested a lot of our systems and our structures. And one thing we learned though, is if you can pull it off at one location, you can do it again. So the lessons that you learned with this one location and how you have to adapt is going to make it way easier for you to consider.
potential options in other states and whatnot, like wherever the Lord might be leading. So how exciting. Okay. I haven't asked this question before of guests, but I mean, we're all kids ministry people. We're all really interested in like what curriculum are you using kind of stuff. ⁓ here's my question. Really simple. What curriculum or curriculums do you use in your kids ministry and why did you choose those?
Samuel Collins (24:39)
Yeah, so with elementary, we use GO. It's quite literally spelled GO with an exclamation mark. ⁓ And GO gets to really focus on a one to two year run of the Bible, which I love because again, it allows elementary students, if they're from kindergarten to fifth grade, they have multiple times that they're getting to go through each of these stories. ⁓ And while they're very similar, we kind of get to adjust that as well.
⁓ And so we use Go because I think that there's a benefit in always getting to point back to Jesus. ⁓ That's one of the things that I really love about Go is it's ⁓ flexible enough to where we can tweak it and use it in the way that we want it to be ⁓ displayed ⁓ in the realm of like 12 stone and ⁓ even getting to be friendly with like templates and what we get to input the curriculum into.
but it's also like good on face value if you're using it for exactly like what they provided. And so Go has been really good for us in the ways of how we get to lead from stage, but also getting to lead in small groups and ⁓ how that looks. And I think it's really elevated that for us. ⁓ from what I know, we've been using that for about six years now, six and some change. ⁓ And again, kind of the shift that we made
because of that was, again, I think there's a value in every single lesson getting to point back to Jesus, regardless of what the message is, because I think, again, the Bible, I think the beautiful thing about the Bible is there's so many cross references, ⁓ but we're also getting to help kids kind of identify that in a way that is understandable for them. And so we Go for our elementary students and then for preschool, we're actually using Life.Church's model.
of the Bible through the Bible app and ⁓ through their characters and everything. And ⁓ one of the things that we've learned with preschool is ⁓ the last thing that we need to do is put them in front of a screen for another hour. And so we're getting to really use that ⁓ and partner with having preschool people that are teaching live ⁓ and getting to use that to compliment the teacher rather than the teacher compliment the video. And that's another thing again that I love about
KIDMIN U Team (26:46)
Hmm.
Samuel Collins (27:00)
⁓ Life.Church's curriculum is that they're walking through all of that in a year ⁓ and really hitting the main focal points of ⁓ key things that kids need to understand and believe at a young age, ⁓ especially in preschool where it's a developmental age where they're starting to really learn basic topics and even getting to learn what the basics are of worship and even a small group and who Jesus is.
And so I think both of those have been really great and catalysts in ⁓ how we're helping kids develop in our kids ministry spaces.
KIDMIN U Team (27:38)
Yeah. Those are two really good options. ⁓ what I love about go, there's three things I think. ⁓ and I wrote them down so won't forget because I'm a big fan of go, but number one, I feel like it's probably one of the most age appropriate publishers out there. ⁓ not that the others aren't, but I feel like this probably stems from their founder, David Roush, cause I've always felt like he has a really good feel for what things should look like at each age group.
⁓ And it it shows like it comes across in the lessons, know rarely do you look at an activity for lower elementary and be like ⁓ This is over their head or it's not challenging enough like, you know, it's usually like right in that sweet spot and ⁓ So I love the way that they do that. I also love that they have training built into it So if people haven't actually seen their guides yet, ⁓ they have little training tidbits built into their leader guides
So your leaders are learning as they go. Like their training is built into their weekly prep, which I think is brilliant. More people should do. And then the last thing, probably like the biggest influence they've had on me is the way they do their teaching timeline. I remember seeing this years ago and basically what they'll do is they'll go through the entire Bible in a year. But I think, like you said, they have a two year cycle. like the next round, they'll have slightly different stories, but still the same flow.
But what I love about it is the way, like, I feel like they were probably the first one that I can remember who had this flow and now almost everybody does it. But I want to give credit to go for pioneering this where you start old Testament and the fall and you build up to Christmas, which naturally is the beginning of the new Testament. And then you flow into where Easter is. And then you talk about the early church. And then over the summer, sometimes that's like a flex time, you know, where
You could do a special series on Psalms or the prophets or, whatever you want. ⁓ but the way they do that, I think is so thoughtfully laid out where it flows chronologically really nicely. I'm a big fan of go. I I'm not being paid to say this neither is Sam, but I think it's one of the best, ⁓ things out there and the Bible app for kids. use that for years. ⁓ for both age groups, by the way, I think I told you this before we got on the call, but I even use their, ⁓
their content for elementary as well because in a set up tear down environment where we didn't have screens available to us, I didn't need one of these fancy curriculums that has great videos because I couldn't show it to anybody. And all of the sudden, like when you think about the core deliverables that you want from a curriculum, they had it and they had a storybook that parents could buy on Amazon and have at home that matches what we're teaching. And they also had
an app that kids could interact with during the week. and even online, like all of the videos that we might play on a Sunday are available if people want to watch them at home and go deeper with the story. ⁓ I love what you guys have chosen. I think it's fantastic. We talked before getting on the call about what engagement really looks like. And I know there's a temptation maybe for churches to veer more towards entertainment.
than discipleship, tell me how you guys are thinking through what engagement looks like in your kids' ministry and how you're trying to build things around that.
Samuel Collins (31:12)
Yeah, I think it's an ever going challenge, especially in the day and age that we live in where things are consistently changing. I think that's honestly, I mean, you could pinpoint anything in history within the church and the church trying to figure out how do they adjust to the times that we're living in. And so you have this blend of not only digital, but kids that have shorter attention spans where we are in this temptation of going
we have to them attentive and we have to keep them entertained consistently. And I think for us, we get into this understanding ⁓ that entertainment equals engagement. And so we measure the effectiveness of our ministry based on how well we can entertain kids. ⁓ And so it's been an ongoing thing of navigating for us, ⁓ even talking about what does it look like for a parent when they're
dropping their kid off and seeing how we're investing in them and the things that we even send home and ⁓ helping create conversations with them. And so for a long time, it was we would have parents drop their kids off and they'd be in the room and they're playing games and having fun and all that kind of stuff. And then the parents would come and pick their kids up and they'd be doing the exact same thing. And so what we're translating to parents is, man, all they do in here is just play and interact with kids, which there's a value to that and kids are getting to grow in their relationships.
it's not showing the parents a distinct understanding of what we actually are doing for their kids. And so we've made the shift of, I mean, yes, kids are coming in, but what we do is we send them straight to their small group rug now. And we have like opening questions where this is the time that kids are sitting with their small group leader. And yeah, they're probably playing games at their carpets and cards or whatever, but they're also getting engaged in like, this is the time where it's like, hey, how was your week? Like getting to really,
distinctly get that kind of stuff out of the way. ⁓ Not in a way of like, all right, let's get this knocked out so that we can get to like the important stuff because the important stuff is the relational aspect. ⁓ But it's an opportunity for kids to come into a more calm environment that's not like high energy and like just all over the place. ⁓ But it's an initial like starting point of going at the very first thing that you're doing when you get in the room is you're being seen.
And so that's been a cool thing for us. And then when we end our time with the kids, we're actually ending the service with small groups. And so that opens us up for opportunities, especially if the adult service goes a little bit long, they're getting to engage in longer conversation. But at the same time, when parents are picking their kids up, they're coming into an environment ⁓ where you can just feel like the difference rather than coming into a room where it's like almost controlled chaos to
an environment where parents are seeing their kids being invested in. And so for us, it's like, how do you find the balance of, yes, like the entertainment side of kids ministry where kids are coming in and they're having fun and like loving it, but also creating an environment where they're being discipled? Because I think the last thing that we want to do is a kid moves up into student ministry and all they remember about kids ministry is that it was fun. Not that they learned like,
KIDMIN U Team (34:37)
Hmm.
Samuel Collins (34:39)
okay, this is who I am, this is who God is, and actually learning what does it look like to have a distinct relationship with God. And so again, I think somewhere along the way, we've started to blend engagement and energy, and if kids are super loud and excited and laughing and constantly moving and all this kind of stuff, then we're winning. ⁓ But I think the important thing that we need to teach kids in a world that is so dopamine-driven and so like...
screen heavy and all this kind of stuff is like, I there's an importance of us slowing down, like sitting in the uncomfortable moments of like silence and stuff like that and going, what does it look like to actually be still in a world that is like fast moving? ⁓ Because man, I think a lot of times we miss out on hearing the voice of God, even in our own lives, because we're moving so fast. And so if that's a thing for us and we're not helping kids grow in that.
KIDMIN U Team (35:31)
Hmm.
Samuel Collins (35:35)
themselves, then they're going to fall into the same issues and same umbrella of not actually learning and working on that muscle of going, what does it look like to slow down and actually just spend time with Jesus? And so that's been an ongoing thing for us is we're trying to figure that out and ⁓ trying things and ⁓ figuring out what works and what doesn't. And I don't know that there's a perfect model for that either. I think it depends on
demographic of people and kids that you have too. ⁓ But for us, we found a cool opportunity where I think there's a bigger value in kids are in school all week and they're being teached at. ⁓ And so the last thing I think that we want to do is create another environment where kids feel like it's school again. ⁓ And so while we do small groups at the end, we also have a middle point where it's kind of feels like a table discussion.
where kids are way more encouraged to be in their small group the entire service. And so our large group leader will get up and they'll teach and then they'll throw to small groups for five to 10 minutes and you're literally talking through what they just heard. Because a lot of times kids can be sitting there and their attention span drifts off and they have no idea what our large group leader just taught about. But when you're getting in a setting where it's like face to face and having a conversation with you of going, what did you literally just hear?
Like a lot of times there are kids that go, yeah, this is what I just heard and they understand it. But it's also like really cool because you're getting to answer like fresh questions of a kid going, I have no idea like how to understand what he just said. And so now I'm getting to do like face value and helping you understand like, yeah, like this was the story that we just talked about. And so then when you're getting to go to the closing application, the large group leader is.
is talking about they have a better understanding of what they just heard, which then allows them to be able to understand the closing application better. ⁓ Because again, I think as adults, like our biggest desire is we're getting in community with others when we're doing a small group ourselves. And so why wouldn't we help kids learn that at a young age? So I think that's the things that we've been working through and trying to learn and grow in and. ⁓
KIDMIN U Team (37:38)
Yeah.
Samuel Collins (37:56)
obviously facing with all the complications of kids ministry of going, I have enough small group leaders, do have enough people that are getting to help engage and pour into the next generation? But that's kind of the stuff that we've learned as we've been on this journey of how do you actually keep kids engaged without having to be like 150 % all the time.
KIDMIN U Team (38:20)
Yeah, I love what you were sharing about how you start and end your services. That's something I've noticed in the past, I actually had a relative of mine, my aunt was bringing her kids into our kids ministry years ago. And, you know, she's a committed believer, you know, all this stuff, seasoned Christian, and she would drop off the kids. And like you said, they'd be playing games, and she would pick them up, they'd still be playing games.
She asked me one time like away from church like at a family gathering, you know, probably Christmas or something and she goes Hey, like do you guys do anything during church? She's like I come and they're playing I pick them up They're playing do you just play the whole time and I go no, of course not We do this this this and this and I realized in that moment if my aunt Who's been going to our church forever and is very familiar with a lot of things if she thinks that all we do is play How many other parents think the same way?
So I love that you're bringing energy into how do we start and how do we end and specifically like the way you start. I love that you're starting on a rug with your small group instead of something that is like a big large group. That's chaotic. You know, it reminds me of, ⁓ the difference between youth ministry and kids ministry. You know, the wind and youth is big, crazy, high energy, loud music.
You know, the more wild it is, ⁓ the more energy you have. And that's like a good thing in youth. It's the opposite in kids. You know, the bigger it gets, the more we lose control and sometimes even impact. And then even the end of church is important. I remember years ago, I think it was true curriculum, which is still around with David C. Cook. But I remember back in the day, they did something that I hadn't seen before where they wanted you to
end the service with a blessing. And the whole idea was you literally wait until parents come. Like in what we did, we actually waited till there was a line. Like I wanted most of the parents like in the room for this, but you wait till all the parents are there and then you invite them in to come and stand behind their child or beside their child or whatever. And you pray a prayer of blessing over them together. Like that's how you end the service.
And I'll be honest, some of our leaders were a little bit intimidated by that. know, parents are in the room, whatever. And it's easy to write that off because leaders might be scared to do it. ⁓ Logistically bringing parents in the room sometimes can feel a bit messy and chaotic, but it was probably the most powerful thing that we did. ⁓ Not only for the blessing itself, but reiterating to parents what we do here has value. We're actually teaching kids what it looks like.
to follow Jesus. so, and by the way, all of that, like another big part is your modeling for parents what this looks like at home. You know, so many parents, man, they're like, I don't know how to pray for my kid. They just, I think they picture it as this big scary thing that only professional Christians can do. And that's not the case at all. And so it was a very powerful thing. And so in the same way,
Like it sounds like you're trying to make sure that parents interrupt something at the end where we haven't already broken off from playing games. actually want parents to see the middle of something, whatever it is, so that they know that we're actually doing meaningful things. I love that. I'd love to hear a little bit more about what happens in between. You know, maybe this will be a little bit more, uh, practical, a little more nitty gritty, but I think kids mystery people geek out on this kind of stuff.
And let's focus just on elementary for a second, because that's where there's often a wide range of how people do things programming wise. Preschool is a little bit more streamlined. It's a little more similar from one church to the next. But for elementary, you told us how it starts and how it ends. Give us maybe the high level overview of the flow of your service. You don't have to get super detailed if you don't want to, but just from start to finish, what does it look like?
Samuel Collins (42:36)
Yeah, so for us, we open doors 15 minutes before service. And so when kids are walking in the room, what we have is again, the small group rugs and leaders are at their rugs with their grade sign and their small group cart that are all labeled as their grades. And on the screens, you have small group like connect questions. Leaders don't have to walk through that if they don't want to, but it's kind of another tool.
just as like a, hey, this is like a ⁓ generic like segue into personal conversation and like, how's your week? But also like some questions that kind of help get their brain thinking towards like what today's message is gonna be about. And so we start right on the hour. So nine and 11 for us. And ⁓ what that looks like is our large group leader is getting up and they're doing our quick introduction of like.
man, we're so excited that you guys are here. If it's like the first week of the series, they're all going like, we're starting a brand new series today and that kind of stuff. And they're going through our three rules or the things that we choose to be. And for us ⁓ with kids at 12 stone, we ⁓ invite them to be kind, to be safe and to be curious. And so we get to walk through what those three values look like. And then we always start off with a game. And so,
you're kind of gradually doing the buildup a little bit. And obviously games look different. Sometimes it's involving every single kid. Sometimes you're inviting three to four kids on stage and they're getting to compete or interact and doing all of that. And then when we're finished with the game, then we're segueing into worship. And so the way that we do that is our large group leaders getting to kind of give a little bit of a prompt of going, hey, this is what worship is. ⁓ And one of the things that we've tried to encourage too is
The last thing that we wanna create worship to be is something that's like forced, where it's like, hey, if you're not doing the motions, if you're not doing these things, then you're doing something wrong. And so we're creating an environment of like, my favorite thing to invite kids into is being curious, again, of going, what does it look like for me to be engaged in worship today? And so we do worship, we always do two songs. The first song is a higher energy, where we're getting to do motions and we're getting to jump around and kids are on stage leading those out. ⁓
And then we segue into a slower song ⁓ that no motions, nothing, but it's helping them kind of go from this elevated, like high energy to kind of mellowing back out. ⁓ We end that, we close it with prayer, and then the kids stay standing and they do their Bible memory verse for the month. ⁓ That is usually on the screen, but we also try to have our large group leaders know ⁓ the message as well and the scripture of what we're walking through. ⁓
Then we're segueing into our actual main teaching ⁓ in Go. It's called the big Bible story. And so we're walking through God's big Bible story and the topic of it ⁓ that correlates with our lesson. for example, one of the things that we just walked through ⁓ that we have been kind of navigating and trying out is having four main things that we're pinpointing ⁓ each service.
or each week. And so we had this one that we used a little bit of Go, but also used a little bit of what we're walking through as a church. And so we called it Power Up. And basically, as we went through the story, all these kids had like these LED, like black light pens, and they were getting to draw different objects that happened to correlate with the story. And so not only was it being able to teach on the main stage, but it was something that had, like the kids were engaged the entire time.
And so they're drawing it they're like running up to the stage and showing the large group leader, like what they drew and all this stuff. ⁓ And so in the middle of that, after ⁓ the big Bible story has been shared, they're going into a short small group time where it's five to 10 minutes and they're talking literally about what they just heard. And so it's the Bible story review and it's the exact same questions each week of like, who are the characters? What was the main part of the story?
⁓ Obviously all these questions are here to provide for the small group leader. We're not gonna sit there and be like, hey, you have to like ask these exact questions. It's like, if a kid asks a question and it's related to the story, like run with it. Because that's what we're there to do. It's not a, we have to stay so like keen in on like what these questions are. And if kid gets off topic, then we have to move back. Like we want to segue into that. And so then kids are going back and
putting their attention on the large group leader for ⁓ our closing application and going like, what is your next step after this message? And like, what are you actually gonna take away from it? Because we're not just gonna teach you about something and then not give you a way to actually go and apply it. And so we're giving them that closing application and then they're throwing it to small group where they're talking through is like, what is my next step after I've just heard this message? Like, what are my main takeaways? And then getting to really engage in like practical conversation.
as parents are coming through to pick them up. And so kind of like what you said, like I love that parents are coming in and almost having to like interrupt their kid from a conversation. And I've noticed the more that parents see that, the more that they'll even like stand back and try to like let their kid almost find a like end point. ⁓ And it's different for every kid. There's some kids that see their parent and immediately get up and run to them. And then there's some where it's like, you know, talk to the hand, like I'm in small group right now, which is awesome.
And so that's kind of the structure for us. ⁓ And I think that's worked really beautifully for us as we've been trying to tweak it and move it around and trying to find like the perfect thing that works. But I think it's been a great model for us that's helped kids stay engaged because it's not a, I'm going to sit here and just listen the entire time. It's a, I'm listening for a little bit, then I'm talking and then I'm listening again. And then I'm finishing with talking it out.
And so they're getting to express their thoughts and questions and opinions rather than it just being somebody is sitting there and teaching them the entire Sunday and they get up and they leave. ⁓ And so I think that's opened the opportunity for more ⁓ kids to have conversations with their parents that's really helpful and applicable.
KIDMIN U Team (49:10)
Yeah. One of the things that you have been describing, maybe, maybe you haven't spoken to it directly, but what I noticed behind everything that you guys have planned is you're switching it up constantly. Probably if I would, I forward to guess it's probably to manage attention spans, right? And like continually try and bring kids back in. I remember at a church a few years back, we, um, this is pretty wild. Gosh, I haven't thought about this in a minute.
But we planned our services where it was all five minute segments. Nothing we did lasted more than five minutes. And so our entire leader guide, you could just see like there are little five minute spots and it's like, all right, what are we doing in this one? And I mean, even in large group too, like worship would be a five minute window. You know, we do our two songs and we keep it moving. and you know, if we had a story video or somebody live teaching, whatever, again, five minutes.
That's all you got, you know? And, and then we'd throw it to the next thing and it helped a ton. think, gosh, I'll have to look this up later, but we even came up with an acronym for it. Cause we sort of had a formula of what we did. You know, we didn't just like think, what do we want to do this week? You know, if we weren't like started from scratch, it's like every week it's like, okay, well, cool. We've got debrief. We know that's coming after a large group where that's where we discuss things together. We know we've got remember.
coming up where we've got a memory verse that we're committed to helping our kids commit to memory. ⁓ You know, you've got these buckets so that when I'm planning my leader guides, I know I need one of this type of activity. I need one of that type of activity. Simplified a lot for us, but switching it up like you guys did is so, helpful for kids. wanna, speaking of switching things up, ⁓ there are a couple of things you mentioned before we hit record.
that I wanted to talk about. Maybe the first one is this, you talked about in the spirit of discipleship, so much of what we do, we try and bring high energy and enthusiasm into something, but then you mentioned we wanna teach kids how to be still. How do you do that at 12 stone?
Samuel Collins (51:27)
That's a great question. ⁓ I think it's an ongoing thing that we're trying to learn and be good about. think, again, you create opportunities in service that can feel awkward, especially if a kid is so used to being on the move consistently. And so I think we found ways to ⁓ create a space, yes, within small group, but also there's times where...
we'll do an additional piece of worship where worship music is playing and we're inviting kids to actually sit and be still and inviting them to talk to God. I think again, those can be messy, but I think that's the point. You think about an adult service and it can feel the same way sometimes. You're sitting there and they're like, all right, hey, we're gonna sit here for the next five, six minutes and just complete silence and you're gonna talk to God on your own. And...
For some, it's not awkward because they've worked on that muscle, but for some, it is awkward. And I think we're okay with embracing the awkwardness of it ⁓ because we're helping kids work on that muscle of going, I'm gonna take time, I'm gonna slow down from what we've been doing, and we're actually gonna just sit with God. And what does that actually look like? And it's different for everybody, it's different for every kid, it's different for every adult. ⁓ But I think that's the beauty of teaching the importance of it.
of going, what does it look like for me to actually slow down? What does it look like for me to slow my body down and like just be and sit still and not be talking to my neighbor and not be like getting up and running around. And that looks different for all of our kids as some have a hard time with like sitting and being still. ⁓ But I think it's a, again, it's an ongoing thing that we're trying to learn and grow in and figure out as I think most of us are in kids ministry.
of going, do we have a portion that is high energy and fun? And then how do we have a moment of like actually teaching them what it looks like to be still? And so, man, you can only do so much in an hour for a kids service. But I think, again, the importance of it is going, what does it practically look like? ⁓ So I wouldn't say that we're perfect at it.
But I think we have been trying to find distinct opportunities for kids to practice that. So that when they grow up and become older in student ministry and eventually an adult, we've helped them build the foundation of their faith that they have continued to build what they believe on and their relationship with Jesus and all of that. Because man, if we can get them to where they're in student ministry and they've already practiced these things.
⁓ Not only is it going to make the student pastor job a little bit easier, but at the same time, it's going to set kids and students up successfully for building again a foundational faith from a young age that's going to benefit them when they get into middle school, high school, college, and so forth. So ⁓ yeah, I think that's what we've been really focused on is again, the small group time of it being really like slow.
And you find ways to create an environment like that, whether you're playing a pad in the background or ⁓ again, creating an atmosphere that's not loud and ⁓ overstimulating and a lot, you're creating a space that kids are speaking in a softer tone, it's more slow ⁓ and also creating spaces where they're sitting and actually like practicing being still in a world that is so fast moving.
KIDMIN U Team (55:07)
Yeah. Don't sleep on worship pads. That's what I would say. I think you can actually create way more of a vibe and an expectation for what's supposed to happen at a certain time based on the type of music and things in the background. And for those people who might not be familiar with a worship pad, that's just like that sound where it's like, it's kind of a song, but it's not really like that structured. It's just like flowing sound in the back.
Samuel Collins (55:11)
Yep.
KIDMIN U Team (55:37)
You know, and, most worship services are going to have pads at some point in between songs or, know, maybe at the end when a pastor's praying or whatever, I feel like in the main adult service, that's pretty standard. And I think it's starting to catch on in kids ministry environments where, Hey, we can use some of those too, to kind of create the mood for what we want this moment to be like. If I played, I don't know, one of those crazy songs from like
Hillsong Young and Free or something super upbeat. Kids know immediately now is the time to have fun and play a game. But if I play something that's very worshipful in the background, it's a little bit soft, that's huge. I had a friend of mine who is a therapist or I guess a family marriage therapist. Yeah, that. Anyway, they're a counselor and they work with a lot of families and they said one hack for them is music and specifically volume.
She said, if I play music, kids will match the volume. And so if I've got the volume really high, kids will be loud. If I've got the volume really low, they'll intuitively, they'll just match it. You don't have to say anything. It's just, now this works whether you've got, usually if you've got one or two kids, like in a room, whatever, it also sort of works in a large group environment too. ⁓ Although sometimes people still get carried away, but I've found this to be true. And I actually have.
tried to teach our small group leaders that too, where, you if you've got music going on in your classroom for check-in, check-out, or certain parts of service, I tell them, pay attention to the volume, pay attention to what you're actually playing. And so I would always give them two different playlists, you know? I'd give them the one playlist that's for check-in and check-out, and I'd say, don't go beyond a certain volume, otherwise kids will get crazy. It'll be hard to wrangle them in.
Samuel Collins (57:32)
Mm-hmm.
KIDMIN U Team (57:33)
But then there's another playlist. It's more worshipful that you can actually put on like during other part of, ⁓ your services. remember, ⁓ gosh, years ago, seeing kids do response time for the first time. And by that, mean, I walked into a, a kid's service at another church and the way they ended their large group time, they played one song that was probably more similar to a pad. Like we talked about is very low key, very calm, whatever.
And each corner of the room had a station. One might be a journaling station. One might be a prayer wall. Another one might have action Bibles or something where kids could read that, that Bible story for that day. And the fourth one, I don't know what they had there, but each corner had something different. And the host would come up and say, when we start this song, I would encourage you to worship in your own way. And
Basically, while the song was playing, kids could choose what they wanted to do. They could sit still, they could sing the words to the song. If there were lyrics, they could go visit one of the stations or all of the stations. It was up to them, but the only rule was don't distract the people around you. If you don't want to go to a station, that's fine, but just make sure that you're not being loud and you're not chatting it up with your friends. Just for the next few minutes, we want to lean into this moment. And it was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.
And I've, I stole that from that church and I've been using it ever since. And, ⁓ and I also think, ⁓ hopefully I'm not getting like too in the weeds here about all this stuff, but just for people who are listening, maybe this is a good. Like tidbit. I found that the difference when I was doing a time like that, like the difference between it hidden and it being a flop really came back to how I framed that for kids before we started.
So I used to have, here's like a story within a story. Sorry. I used to have a professor in college who taught us how to teach PE. That was the class. was how, which was so weird. Like I went to school to be a teacher and that was one of the obscure classes we took. And he talked about how you frame stuff is really important. And so he pretended to have a PE class and he said, all right, I want you to drop and give me 20 pushups.
Samuel Collins (59:29)
Go.
KIDMIN U Team (59:58)
And then he says, if you can't do a pushup, here's how you do a girl pushup. You know, it was the kind where you like put your knees down. It's way easier, whatever. And he goes, what was wrong with what I just said? And everybody was like, well, you made the other one seem so bad. Like if I, you know, you made it seem like if I can't do a regular pushup, it was like a bad thing. Like if I had to do this other adjusted pushup that I was failing already before I even started. And so he said,
Samuel Collins (1:00:20)
Thank
KIDMIN U Team (1:00:27)
What if you did it like this? What if the first thing you talked about was the adjusted pushup and you called it that? You said, all right guys, here is an adjusted pushup. Here's how you do it. You put your knee on the ground and then you do the rest like this. And then if you wanna push yourself, if you think you're capable of doing more, here's how you can make it a little bit harder and you can see if you can do a full pushup. He said, if I just make that one subtle change with number one, what I say to do first and how I talk about it,
it changes how people engage and all of a sudden you're giving permission for people to do either one and you set it up so that both of them are a win. Whichever one you chose, you did a pushup, you know? And so all that to say, I learned that the way I framed this worship time at the end with kids was so important. Where I would start with the bare minimum ask. And so the bare minimum for that time was if you wanted to sit in your place, if you didn't wanna,
Samuel Collins (1:00:59)
you
KIDMIN U Team (1:01:27)
engage at all. I basically, you know those kids who don't want to do anything in church and they're just obstinate and they're almost trying to like prove a point by not participating in stuff. It's almost like I took the baseball bat out of their hands and I said this is what participation looks like is when you actually stay in your seat and you don't do anything. So I would say that I was like hey we're gonna do worship and if you want to stay in your seat and just think about the lyrics on the song maybe pray quietly to yourself. ⁓
Samuel Collins (1:01:38)
Yep.
KIDMIN U Team (1:01:56)
You're welcome to do that. And then here's the kicker. But if you want to challenge yourself a little bit, we've got some stations around the room and here's what it looks like to participate with each one. ⁓ when I made that shift, engagement went through the roof. Like kids understood the moment way more. And, ⁓ and by the way, more people were willing to challenge themselves a little bit with doing stuff. So hopefully that wasn't like too in the weeds a little bit, but I just, love how you're talking about.
really trying to encourage worshipful moments in your ministry because there was an era where kids ministry was all about high energy. And I think now we're entering a space where we really want depth and we want meaningful moments with our kids. And it's possible, like kids can go there if you create space for them. ⁓ One last thing I wanna ask you about, you said something earlier, you talked about
Samuel Collins (1:02:46)
Yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (1:02:52)
the difference between doing ministry for people and doing ministry through people. I hope I got that right. What does that mean?
Samuel Collins (1:03:01)
Yeah, I think back to what we were talking about with being a young leader, you get this ⁓ understanding or belief that you have to make everything happen. ⁓ And man, while we're doing ministry solely, like again, for people, I think we can forget the importance of doing it with people. like, you know, if I show up on a Sunday and none of my volunteers show up, like that's a bad thing. Like I'm in trouble. And so, man.
Not only am I inviting people to be a part of what God is doing in our kids ministry specifically, but I'm also getting the opportunity to equip and empower other leaders to be called to hire, to be a part of things, not only just maybe like serving on a Sunday, but being a part of stuff throughout the week, ⁓ being called higher into bigger leadership roles within kids ministry. ⁓ Because it's not an idea of me handing off stuff to where I'm more freed up.
it's the understanding of going, I'm handing things off and I'm empowering other leaders to step into the thing that God has called them to do specifically. And so a lot of that is, I think, ultimately just leadership within yourself, but leadership within the church of getting to call people to hire, getting to, again, equip and empower them to doing like ministry together. And I think the most dangerous thing that I can fall into, that any of us can fall into, is the idea that like,
When I'm doing it, I have complete control. And so if I'm like able to do all these things, yeah, it might be exhausting, but I know that it's going to maybe quote unquote come out the way that I want it to rather than me being able to hand that off to other people and them getting to learn and grow and experience what that actually looks like. And so I think, I think that's the thing that we can be susceptible to in any stage.
⁓ regardless of maybe how long we've been in ministry or how little we've been in ministry. And ⁓ as a leader as a whole of going, man, what does it look like for me to hand things off? Again, not to like lessen my plate, but to allow other people to be called higher and to grow in again, their ⁓ abilities, their strengths, their weaknesses, ⁓ because that's the beautiful thing of the church. Like we are a like body of people.
And so why wouldn't you use something where it's like, I might not be organized, but I know somebody else that's really organized and they find life in becoming organized. So why wouldn't I invite somebody in that they go, this is life giving for me, where it's something that I might lack in my leadership and we're getting to come together to benefit the ministry as a whole. And so again, I can fall into the trap of going, I need to be organized. I hate being organized, but I'm just going to do it myself.
rather than inviting somebody that's just itching to be asked, but they need to be asked. So I think that's one of the big things that I've personally learned and had to work through as a leader of going, what are the things that I can hand off? Who do I hand it off to in order to allow God to continue to grow the ministry, continue to bless and invest in kids in the best way possible? ⁓ But if I'm trying to do it by myself,
I think growth is stagnant. think ⁓ leaders are not growing in the way that they should. And I think again, it's not ⁓ allowing me to steward the ministry that God has put in front of me if I'm not willing to hand things off, because it's not my ministry. Like God has put me in this place to lead it, but ultimately it's his. And so why wouldn't I invite other people to be a part of that?
KIDMIN U Team (1:06:47)
Yeah, what a good word. I think that's a great place to wrap up. ⁓ Sam, thank you for being willing to come on the podcast and share some of the things that you guys are thinking through and working through at 12 stone. ⁓ That is one of those churches that, like I said before, just has a legacy and an influence and, and as a blessing, not only to the people inside your church, but people all around the country too.
So thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for coming on. If people wanna stay in touch with you or kinda keep tabs on what you're up to, where would you point them?
Samuel Collins (1:07:23)
great question. ⁓ Man, I'm on socials, ⁓ Instagrams, the same Collins contact information is just Samuel Collins at 12 stone church. Or, wow, let me re correct my email. ⁓ Samuel Collins at 12 stone.com. ⁓ But yeah, man, I don't know where I was going with that as a horrible ending. But we'll yeah.
KIDMIN U Team (1:07:47)
You're good, man. No, it's
funny. feel like we've got on the podcast, you're Sam at work. You're Samuel, you know. So fun, man. And you can tell we're talking to a young leader because he called it the socials. So, you know, we're going to try and stay trendy here. But, man, thank you for coming on. Everybody who is listening, man, thank you for being part of this and listening and supporting the podcast. Hope it's a blessing to you. We'll see you next time.
